Becoming Your Warrior
Hosted by Emma Ritchie, ex-TV producer turned Mindset Coach, hypnotherapist and Founder of The Mindset Redesign, Becoming Your Warrior is a deep, soulful, and empowering podcast designed to help you step into the next chapter of your life with confidence, clarity, and self-love.
Through powerful mindset shifts, guided reflections, and honest conversations, Emma helps you break free from self-doubt, reconnect with your inner strength, and create a life that feels truly aligned. Whether navigating change, healing old wounds, or stepping into your fullest potential, this podcast is your safe space to explore, grow, and rise.
Each episode is filled with insightful wisdom, practical tools, and heart-led guidance to help you become the warrior of your own life—one who stands tall in self-worth, embraces change fearlessly and leads with love.
This is your invitation to step into your power. Your journey starts now. 💫
You can find out more about Emma at www.Emma-ritchie.com
Becoming Your Warrior
Awakening Wonder: How to Reconnect with Yourself & Life with Wondr's Founder Nele Vandersmissen
Have you ever felt like life has lost its spark, like you’re just going through the motions but missing the magic? In this episode, I sit down with the incredible Nele Vandersmissen from Wondr who has dedicated the last decade to helping people awaken that sense of wonder and deep connection.
We dive into her journey—from a childhood moment that shaped her curiosity to a life-changing awakening in Montana. Nele shares how breaking free from the mundane, deep listening, and paying attention can shift your relationships, your perspective, and your entire world.
This is a conversation about rediscovering awe, embracing presence, and stepping fully into life. If you’re ready to reconnect with yourself and find the beauty in everyday moments, this episode is for you.
✨ Tune in, take a deep breath, and let’s explore what it truly means to wake up to life.
You can find Nele's work at https://www.wondr.global/wondr-lab
or
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nele-vandersmissen-8564bb27/
You can follow Emma at:
https://www.instagram.com/emmaritchiewellness/
https://www.facebook.com/emmaritchiewellness/
Hi and welcome to the Becoming your Warrior podcast. My name is Emma Ritchie and today I have got such a treat for you. You know, when you meet someone and you just know they have this really special magic about them. Well, today's guest is Mila van der Smissen, and that's how I feel about her. We have shared and moved in the same friendship circles for years, but today's the first time I've actually heard her full story and it really blew me away.
Emma Ritchie:Nele has this gift for creating incredible spaces where people reconnect with themselves, with each other, and tap into the deep wonder of life. And this episode we dive into the journey that shaped her, from a childhood spark to a powerful awakening in Montana. We explore, breaking free from the mundane, how deep listening transforms relationships and how simply paying attention might be the most powerful tool we have If you've been feeling stuck or disconnected. This conversation is going to be like a giant inspiring soul hug. So get comfy, take a deep breath and let's dive in. So I want to say a massive welcome to you, neela, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. My first question I just want to get straight into it is really how can people live a life of wonder Great question.
Nele Vandersmissen:Let's get straight into it. For me, a life of wonder is having all your eyes and ears and all your senses wide open to how beautiful life is, to how beautiful life is, and so to practice that it would be starting with practicing the art of noticing things and paying attention. So I would say it's two things it's attention and intention. So if you can increase your attention, so your possibility to be present to everything that's happening around you all the time, then that will increase your sense of wonder. But also to be present to everything that's happening around you all the time, then that will increase your sense of wonder. But also to be intentional about how you spend your time and for me, the acts of wonder that really take your breath away, so the moments that you're like and you are in this moment in time that you will remember, that has an impact on you, that feels meaningful. That time is sacred time and for me something happens there and if we're intentional about it, we can create more moments like that. Or we can choose to live in more normal time, chronological time, to live in more normal time, chronological time, and then we're just in a mundane way of living in the world and that's the difference.
Nele Vandersmissen:So for me, living a life of wonder means being intentional about how I spend my time and making choices so that's positive choices but also having boundaries around things. So it means I will say yes to things that I get lit up about. I'll say yes to things that bring me joy, and that is different for everybody, and I will try to do more of that, because that gives me the sensation or the feeling of sacred time. So I will be doing things. I spend a lot of time in nature. For me there's a lot of wonder there, but for everyone that's different. So I have to have boundaries around who I spend time with and how I spend my time too, because otherwise I'll end up in this endless row of profane or mundane moments. I would say and and I prefer not to do that I prefer to spend more time in sacred time and being constantly awed or wowed by the world. Yeah, amazing.
Emma Ritchie:That's a beautiful description, um mean, for people like in the modern world. Now, you know you talk about presence and you talk about attention, you talk about intention. But right now I feel, and especially where I live in the city, you know people can get caught up in the rat race. You know people maybe aren't being intentional, maybe because they don't have the headspace. I mean, do you see that a lot with the people that you work with, that it's hard to get people to come into a space of wonder.
Nele Vandersmissen:It is harder when you're in your normal life and it's not your usual way of living. So, for example, when I do retreats because I organize retreats it's a lot easier because people are separated from their normal routine. So I would say the easiest ingredient to create a difference for people or an experience of awe, is to separate them from their routine. That is the easiest way to do that. But if people are looking for it in their day-to-day lives, it's possible. You know, it's just you only have to open the door and pay attention. But that requires intention and willingness and I think people are busy so it's difficult.
Nele Vandersmissen:But you'll find that if you can create a place that is away from routine and people don't have their phones et cetera, then it's actually quite. It comes really natural to people. So people will be easily awed and they'll be like wow, it was so easy. I just spent the whole weekend feeling like I'm 12 years old again. It's incredible and it's like well, you have that capacity within you. It's not that hard, except you know, if you spend a lot of time on your phone and you have a whole row of profane things that you need to do on the weekend you go from your dentist appointment to your supermarket, to your da-da-da-da-da, then you kind of you're not that wonder prone.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, yeah, I love that. And for you I mean mean you mentioned kind of people coming out of the weekend and being like 12 years old. I, I'd love to go back to to you and where this love of storytelling and wonder and where did that come from? Where did that? Where? Where are the origins of that in your life?
Nele Vandersmissen:I love that question because I love storytelling, so I love when people ask me that For me, I have to think back on as a child. I grew up in a really loving family, small village, lots of nature, and never had anything to want for, never had anything that was missing. So because of that I would say, now that I know a bit of developmental psychology, I'm someone who has an incredible trust in the world and it's the greatest gift right. So I feel safe a lot. That's my default mode. So I don't have this level of unsafety that came from when I was a child or anything like that to be traced back, which is wonderful I'm super grateful for. And my family of origin wasn't particularly wonder prone, so they were very hardworking, very hardworking people, post-war kids, very kind of straightforward, practical, and we were always talking about, you know, saving money and being very it was just very logical, practical stuff. And as a child I remember very clearly that I was always like there's something more, though. There's something else that's available and we can't grasp it here and I just know it's there and I and I couldn't. It was just not the way that we lived life. I would say there was always a little element of fear, of, like, what could go wrong and worrying, and so that was also how I grew up, and I did all the normal things that kids do, and I got good grades, and there was always a part of me that thought I want to experience something more, though, and I know it exists, and I didn't know how to do it.
Nele Vandersmissen:And then, when I was 10, someone invited me to go on an excursion in nature with this youth group that had just started in my neighborhood, and I'd signed up for it, not expecting anything of it, and these two guys with binoculars and like total hippies, like long hair, little glasses, the whole thing they're standing at the end of the street with their you know their wellies and their barber code and the whole shebang, and they're like right, we're going to take you on an excursion because we live close to a lake. And I was like, oh, I don't know about this, it was the most magical day. So we caught butterflies and then let them fly off again. We looked at birds through binoculars and they taught us all these different things about the ecosystem. And then, at one point, we found this mount of sand, this dune, this sand dune, and we sat in it and we started looking for fossils and I found a shark tooth and I just thought it was the most incredible thing ever. I was like you. And then they were like there used to be sharks here because it was an ocean and I just was completely in awe and that was the first time that I thought, okay, there's all this stuff here that I cannot see. So there must be more of this. There must be more of this and I'm going to find it.
Nele Vandersmissen:And then I got a library membership and I started reading all the books about paleontology and archaeology and my dad would take me to the library every Sunday and every Sunday I would get five books and read them, and then every Sunday I would bring them back and get five more. And, yeah, I just became an avid reader in my little village. That was my way, I think, to escape. And then to escape into the forest or into nature, because that one time was the first time I'd spent time in nature in that way. That was so conscious.
Nele Vandersmissen:So I'd been for a walk before, sure, but not like wow, beyond the surface, if you look through binoculars or if you sit down and dig into this dune, this sand, you might find something that to me was wild. And so now, still even telling the story. And so like now, still even telling the story, I was like crazy, we should do that to all children. But of course that's my thing that I fell in love with. But I still love all those things. I still love libraries, I still love looking for fossils, I still like birds, I still like nature. So none of that has changed and that still gives me wonder yeah, yeah.
Emma Ritchie:So it kind of sounds like it. It really began in nature. It kind of sounds like you know, because you said at the start, like you find wonder in nature, and it kind of sounds like that theme has followed you from childhood. What are other areas that people can find wonder? Do you think outside of nature?
Nele Vandersmissen:Yeah, so nature is a big one, but another one I think people forget is other people. So there's a type of wonder that you get called moral beauty, and it's when you're in awe of someone else's goodness. And it's probably my favorite type of wonder, but it's when you either it could be goodness or talent, and I use this in my work a lot because I truly believe that everybody is born with a unique talent. It's like a diamond in the rough. You're just meant to dig it up. You're meant to uncover it and let it shine, and most people don't know how to do that or don't know what that talent is. But when we are in the presence of someone that is shining, you can tell. It's like when you go.
Nele Vandersmissen:I think last month I went to a concert and it was a ukrainian folklore singer and it was just incredible. You know I had tears in my eyes. It was beautiful. She told the story of where these songs came from. This was what she was meant to do. You know, she was a singer who was interested in history, and so she traveled the country to dig up all these old stories and talk to the people and meet the choirs, and so it became her gift to the world and you could feel it. There was like a transpersonal power coming through her when you're witnessing her on stage and you cannot not be moved by that.
Emma Ritchie:It's impossible.
Nele Vandersmissen:So when someone or it's like you know it could be a soccer player, it could be any type of talent when you're watching or witnessing someone do something, that is like whoa, you know. And I think what's beautiful about that type of wonder, specifically, is that if you're in the presence of someone who is living their gift, you know, or they're shining it, then it's almost impossible not to become curious about that for yourself. You know, no one walks away from that and thinks, okay, average Monday, let's go back to the water cooler. Let's go back to the water cooler. You know, like there's something that happens because of that interaction that makes you think about wait a minute, what am I doing with my?
Emma Ritchie:life. It's like inspiration, right.
Emma Ritchie:When you see someone speaking from a place of passion and they love it and, like you said, shining, and they're lit up and they're really excited about life. Like you know, that's that energy passes on to you and, yeah, it does inspire. It's like athletes, or you know people who it doesn't even have to be somebody on a main stage. It can be somebody who just absolutely loves their role as a parent or as what they do for work or whatever it is. But yeah, you're right, there's a wonder of that and there's an inner questioning. Isn't there that you kind of go, ooh, like I want that. You know, I want that light, I want that energy. So yeah, yeah, beautiful. So let's go back a little bit. So how did you end up coming to Australia? When did that all happen? I know we're jumping around a little bit, but how did that happen? What called you to Australia?
Nele Vandersmissen:I fell in love with an Australian at a music festival in Belgium and we ended up moving here, and I don't know if I really wanted to at the time. I was very happy where I was and was enjoying living in Brussels, had my life there, had a job that I really liked, and his visa ran out. So we lived there for a year, his visa ran out, and then we decided to move here, and that's how I ended up in Australia. We broke up, I don't know six months in something like that, and I had a visa for a year, and I hadn't enjoyed my time here that much because, of course, our relationship wasn't working, and so I didn't have time to fall in love with Australia or put any roots down or meet people, and so I decided I was going to stay for the remainder of my visa, and I also feel like I definitely had a level of pride, like I probably didn't want to go back home and be. I failed, it didn't work, and so I decided, I think, to stay and to just make the most of the last I don't know five or six months I had left on my visa, and I thought, well, I'm going to do that thing that everyone does when they go to Australia, and I'm just going to have the best time. And then somehow I did.
Nele Vandersmissen:I moved into this house on Manly Beach with surfers and it was just on the beach it was. The doors were always open. I don't think we had a lock on the door, so people were always walking in, walking out. It was right on the beach. So I had this, like you know, this life that was from this sitcom life, like in Belgium everyone watches Home and Away and I was like I am living on the set of Home and Away.
Nele Vandersmissen:Actually this is what's happening, I know, every day. People just walk in and they're under like in their beach wear and and I was like this is crazy. So and there was parties and I got to meet lots of people through the people I lived with, and so I had an amazing time and I got a job and at some point I thought I'm having such a great time, maybe I'll stay another 12 months. And so I got sponsored as a recruiter, because that was in the time. That was a job that you could get sponsored, as I've never been in recruitment before. But I became a recruiter and I got a sponsorship and then I don't know exactly what happened but I'm still here.
Emma Ritchie:How long have you been here for now? How many years now? 18, I think, yeah, wow, it goes so fast, huh.
Emma Ritchie:I know it goes so fast, yeah, and so you're working like as a recruiter. Obviously, you know I can see you just doing phenomenally well in that space as well, but you're in that line of work, you're living in this amazing beach house, you know, living this very um, you know, I don't know like this Aussie life, um, so to speak, but where did was the wonder always there for you, like, was there even in your work? Was it there? Or or was there something more like?
Nele Vandersmissen:I love this question. I think I've always known that I didn't want to end up working in a corporation like I always had a part in me that's a little bit allergic to too many rules and, um, that profane way of existing you know where, where everything is predictable and it has to be just so and I just have an allergy for that. But at the time that was the thing that I had to do to stay in the country and I thought, oh well, that's a small sacrifice to make to stay here a little bit longer. And I didn't take that job very seriously. For me it was just a means to an end, like it is for many people. It was like for me this is a way to get my visa, to get money coming in.
Nele Vandersmissen:And I think my wonder came from my interpersonal relationships, from living on the beach, because I came from a small town in Belgium. I always had the idea was going to live overseas and so I ended up living right on the beach in Manly, australia, which was not bad, you know. So I guess wonder for me was like look at where I live every day, and I guess that's something not to take for granted, because I didn't come from that kind of life. So for me now I live in the Blue Mountains now, but every time I see the opera house still and I used to see it every day I'm like wow, look at that building. That's just incredible. And when you're inside of the opera house you're like I can't believe it. I went to a concert there a few weeks ago and I was just in tears. The acoustics in there are so good.
Nele Vandersmissen:So, yeah, I think I'm I'm particularly wonder prone as a person, but there's definitely been moments in my life where it's gone down and I can particularly state that those times in my life have been the least happiest. Yeah, yeah. So for me, wonder is not like an optional thing, it's like, no, if I want to live a life that I'm super excited about and I wake up and I am like let's go, there has to be an element of that and I weave it into everything I do. But in that time it definitely was not part of my work culture, because we had to be there at eight in the morning and you couldn't leave until six.
Emma Ritchie:I've had those jobs, I know what that's like. And the KPIs, all the things, all the things. And why aren't you on the phone?
Nele Vandersmissen:All that stuff.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, I've definitely had those jobs. So can we talk because you mentioned that obviously there are times when in your life where you know there has been dips, you know there have been challenges, there have been maybe obstacles, and can you talk or can you share from your own experience of like how you've used the skills and the tools that you you've got to, I guess, navigate through those darker times or those lower times or all those bigger challenges?
Nele Vandersmissen:sure, I think there's been a lot of stumbling in the dark, to be honest, like I think I definitely went through darker times without having the tools, so I can talk to how it feels different going through them now that I do have them, because I do feel very strongly about this is life and we're human and we're always going to go through ups and downs and you know the art is how do you walk through the storm, kind of thing you know, and so it's not about avoiding the storm, it's about dancing through it or whatever you know. But I definitely for me, a very big change in life came when I had been, I think, working in Australia for seven or eight years and I'd been doing recruitment and I think I just gotten my permanent residency and that was a big change for me because it gave me the freedom then to get another job, you know, and to do my own thing, and up until that time I didn't feel like I had that option. So I was actually quite tight to my employer and I want to say that it's not like I want to erase that time, because I it gave me a sense of discipline, it gave me an appreciation for what I have now and how different that is. It gave me the knowing of what I want and what I don't want. It gave me so many contacts. It gave me the gift of being able to read people really well because I was always interviewing people. So there's always something and I don't want to be like, oh, that time I'll just erase it because that's not true.
Nele Vandersmissen:But I definitely got to quite a dark period where I think my only hobby really was getting drunk on the weekend. It was like, oh, I work really hard and we worked so hard because often I was not out there until 8pm, so there from eight in the morning until eight o'clock at night, and then on the, and then after that I'd just be so psyched up so we'd go for drinks on Friday night and go out until three or four in the morning and then be hung over on Saturday and do the same thing. And, yeah, I was living on the beach and it was great and of course I was a lot younger and everyone was doing that. But there was definitely something in me that temporarily went underground.
Nele Vandersmissen:Like the part of me, what that was like there's something bigger available disappeared. It just kind of got caught up in that mundane way of living. Even maybe from the outside it didn't look that way, because from the outside it would have looked like boat parties and rooftop bars and fancy clothes, and it looked really good on the outside, but for me on the inside it definitely was kind of deadening, yeah. And I think then at one point so I was hearing this calling again of like there's something, there's something that you're meant to be doing, and then I ended up going to a retreat in Montana and that's the moment where everything changed.
Emma Ritchie:Okay, let's talk about Montana. Let's talk about what happened there. Cause this. Like you said, this is where it all changed, so talk us through it.
Nele Vandersmissen:I wonder if everyone has a moment like that. I call those moments Jesus walks where you have a moment and you're suddenly like what the hell have I been doing? And I think sometimes those moments are chosen and sometimes they're not chosen. So I semi-chose mine, because I had read this book and fell in love with it. And a bookshop in Barrie and I started reading it and throughout the week I'd had so many synchronicities happen, but it was uncanny. I thought, wow, everything that she's talking about in this book is happening to me and I've got to write it down. So I wrote it down. This is what happened to me this week when I was writing your book, and it was this whole chapter. And then I thought, oh, maybe I can email it to her, you know. And so I thought first dot, last name at gmailcom perhaps, and so I sent it, and it was her, and she wrote me back an email saying that's amazing. I love reading this. Thank you so much, and I just have this feeling that I want to invite you to this retreat that I'm doing.
Nele Vandersmissen:There's one more spot, because someone just canceled and it's happening in. I think it was two weeks later or three weeks later in Montana and there's 33, there's meant to be 33 women. We had 33, someone just canceled and then I got your email so you could be taking her place and I just said, yeah, I will. And I didn't look up how expensive that was going to be. I'm pretty sure I put all of that on my credit card. I it was five flights away. It took me like two days to get there. It was in the middle of nowhere, that was a whole thing. But I'd said yes, so I went. But I remember getting there.
Nele Vandersmissen:It was a six day retreat with 33 women from all over the world. The name of the retreat was Soul Fire and the idea was to connect to your soul, express your soul truth. And the first thing that happened I mean I can talk about this for hours, but I'll try to be lean in my storytelling the first thing that happened was we gathered in a circle and Sarah, the facilitator, said welcome, we're sitting in circle and she set the agreements of circle, so one person speaks at a time. This is a confidential space, speak from your own experience. And she just said let's just do an introduction round of who are you and why are you here. And as she said it. I was like cool, no worries, I'm Nila, I work at Telstra, you know, like your typical.
Nele Vandersmissen:But then she gave the talk, she had this talking piece and she moved it around and the first woman shared and it was so profound, like she didn't say that, you know, she didn't say I'm such and such and I work at, and blah, blah, blah, but it was like I'm a woman who, you know, and this is what I've lived so far and this is why I'm here and I'm serious about it. And I was like, oh my God, she like went there, you know, and I felt this sense of embarrassment, almost of like she just completely ripped open. And then it turned out, everyone just did that, you know, and I I could feel my whole body had this response of something's going on and I started crying and shaking and, um, I think it was the first time in my life I'd been in a space that was so full of truth, you know, where no one was pretending to be anyone else, there was no masks and everyone was paying attention to what was being said. I just had a physical response to it. My body was like I cannot handle this, yeah.
Nele Vandersmissen:And then it was my turn and I couldn't speak. I just shook and cried and I eventually I said a few words, but it was like I just can't. I was too overwhelmed and I remember that whole week just falling into a heap and it felt like I had to completely break down. I had to completely toss everything that I'd been holding that actually wasn't me, and then found out that there wasn't that much left. You know, I had to kind of start over Um, and then after that I and I also had a feeling of a calling. So I felt very clearly that week whatever it is we're doing here, whatever this practice is, I'm going to learn it and I'm going to do it and this is going to be my job. Yeah, incredible, and I just knew from that moment. And then everything changed and it changed really quickly.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, from that moment and then everything changed, and it changed really quickly. Yeah, if you were to sort of describe what happened to you like that shedding, you know the parts of you, all of that like how would you, well, how would you describe that now, like you know, obviously facilitating this for so many people as well like, how would you describe what happened to you during that week?
Nele Vandersmissen:well, I would say.
Nele Vandersmissen:I mean it was a death and a rebirth, and I don't think I was fully reborn, but it was definitely a process of dying, of like dying to all of the old things or the things I'd been holding on to that gave me safety or an identity even and just stripping things off.
Nele Vandersmissen:Yeah, identity even and just stripping things off. So now I mean I work a lot with natural cycles and systems and know that nothing ever works in a straight line. We're always going in a circle and so, just like in nature, we're supposed to go through autumn, we're supposed to go through phases where things die, so that we can have fertile ground again, and in that fertile ground, when spring comes, we can sow our seeds and et cetera, et cetera. So for me, that moment was like a moment of autumn in my life where I had to actually surrender. Like a tree lets its leaves drop, it's like I just have to let it go and not worry about it. And I think I was able to do that because of the contained environment and of course, you know they held the space for that, and so I felt super safe in just.
Emma Ritchie:You know, I spend a lot of time that week just lying on the floor crying like weeping punching, just letting, letting it all go, huh, just letting all the facade go and, and just in terms of that circle, obviously you said you know 33 women. I mean, can you talk to me about what vulnerability allows for, like you know, in that space, when somebody is in circle and somebody is being vulnerable and is being raw, can you talk to me about, like what you've witnessed, about the power of that and its impact?
Nele Vandersmissen:yeah, 100%. I love talking about this. There is a way of listening that's deeper, so I can give you a little bit of context. There is a framework of listening. So Otto Skarner talks about this a lot, but he says there's four ways, levels of listening, and the first one is downloading. So that would be.
Nele Vandersmissen:You know, you're just taking what you need from a conversation, and there's not any deep listening. You're kind of just preparing what you're going to say in return, and there's not any deep listening. You're kind of just preparing what you're going to say in return. And then the second level is factual listening, which is, oh, you need something from the other person and so you're actually just waiting for that one thing that they need to give you, and then you take that and you discard the rest. And that is 90% of our conversations. They're transactional. Even with our loved ones we have transactional conversations most of the time, and those transactional conversations are also profane and keep us in profane time.
Nele Vandersmissen:And then the next level is empathic listening, and that would be listening where you actually don't respond. So you listen with the intention of, again, intentionality. You listen with the intention to understand the person, and when you do that, something happens in the space between people. So when you share a story with me and it's not a question, but you're sharing your experience and I'm just listening and our agreement is that I'm not going to respond or react, I'm just gonna listen to you so that you can share everything, and then at the end you can ask me what you want from me, whether I want to mirror something back to you or whatever. But you're, I'm just holding the space for you to share what you want to share.
Nele Vandersmissen:And inevitably, what will happen is that I will start imagining what it will would be like to be you, because all I'm doing is being present. I'm not preparing my response. There's no other role for me rather than to understand you. So my brain response is entirely different and it will start sinking. Our brains will start sinking up and, firstly, my imaginative capacity will light up. So I will start imagining your story and once that happens, after a few minutes, my emotive capacity will light up and I will start feeling your story and when that happens, you create a field between people and it's a resonance. I felt it many, many times. It's absolutely magical and at a when we do circle, we say we call that the moment when it drops, it's like a dj I like that they dropped.
Nele Vandersmissen:They dropped and that is when the, when the resonant field comes in. So it's when the the sinking has happened and the people are no longer creating their own story or they're just completely in the story of the other person and they are the other person. And so the benefit of that, of course, is that you create a group system that's really resilient and caring and empathic and all of those things. But also what happens when people are vulnerable is that, and you get that emotive, that empathic response, then your body remembers that story. It has a I think it's 27 times higher likelihood to remember a story than it has to remember data. So you will remember the story because of your somatic response and actually when you're then in a similar situation, you will remember what to do because you've heard that story. So it's actually a way of distilling wisdom from that field, and I think people sometimes now I'm excited, you can tell, I'm like let me tell you go for it.
Nele Vandersmissen:You asked me to talk about my favorite thing. That's all we're here to do, um, but people sometimes, I think, have this image or view of of circle or vulnerable spaces that it's a bit woo or why would you sit around and cry, or. And it's really not about that. It's actually a way to distill wisdom and to get that to be present amongst people and to create understanding. And um, paradox, like, give weight, give space to paradox and possibility, and it it's entirely magical.
Nele Vandersmissen:And and the fourth way of listening is generative listening. So it means that's like the next level up. That's the way of listening where you're listening beyond what you can see, and that's truly magical. And I think people have all experienced. We've all experienced it kind of accidentally, but it happens in ways where you're talking to someone and you're really listening and you're really present with them and because you're having that resonance between you, you can see a possibility that wasn't there before. It's kind of like that field between you takes away the black and white thinking and so you're no longer thinking in false dilemmas. You're not like, oh, it's either this or that, but suddenly you're like, or we could do this other thing, you know, and that's a possibility that happens too in those spaces.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, it's so beautiful. I mean I've had some of the most profound experiences of my life being in circle and listening, like really understanding, and I can actually see, like through all four of those um levels of listening, my own and obviously I'm not perfect at all, but my own involvement, like when I first started to sit in circle, like I could see that I was just in that downloading, and then I sort of went into the factual listening and then, you know, I moved a little bit more into the empathetic and obviously the. The generative listening is obviously the one. Yeah, that that, not that there's a goal, but yeah, that that would be great for us all to like drop into more. But it's really interesting.
Emma Ritchie:Just as you were talking, I was. I can totally see when I've been like that and also like when I slip back into those, those earlier ones that you know the, the first and second one as well. So it's it's so interesting. So and as well. I was just thinking about what you were saying about you know how people have a a bigger retention of, of when people tell you a story rather than the data. And I was just about like, especially here in australia, obviously we have a um, you know, a huge history, um, with our aboriginal, um, our first people here, and just about dream time and the fact that you know that is essentially passing down stories and wisdom, but it's through storytelling isn't it?
Nele Vandersmissen:yeah, and that's how law is remembered, and I definitely am not an expert on this, so I don't want to talk for them. Yeah, but that's how. In my opinion, it's one of the reasons why that is the longest living culture on earth, and it's something that you know, they are obviously really proud of, but we should be more proud of than we currently are and more curious about you know, because you don't just become the longest living culture on earth we should all be like.
Nele Vandersmissen:why is that? It should be an example, and I am sure that wonder and storytelling is one of the reasons, because there is. There's not just storytelling, there is also the deep connection to nature and the natural world and a deep listening to everything, not just humans, but a deep listening to everything around and the mystery, and it's fascinating yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Emma Ritchie:Um, we, I absolutely love where we've gone, but I'm just going to get us back, because you're such a good storyteller and I love all of that and we could definitely go down that way, but I want to just bring us back to you're in Montana. You're going through this huge experience. You're dropping the facade of everything, letting go of who you know, everything that you've had to be, and in that moment you have this deep wisdom, this deep calling where you're like I have to learn this, I have to, I have to understand, I have to do this and facilitate this. So what happens for you when you come back from Montana? How does this journey into circle facilitation and beyond kind of grow from you, for you from that stage?
Nele Vandersmissen:um, it went very organically. And it's a little bit annoying to say that, because it's easier if I say, oh, easy, I did this and training, and then that training and people can copy that model. But actually what happened to me was, a few weeks later, someone that I met at the retreat a woman from the retreat said I have a friend who's coming to Australia and you should meet her, and she became my mentor and it was. I really strongly believe that as soon as you have a calling, the teacher will appear and everything will work out. And I've seen that happen to many people that I've mentored and I've walked alongside and it's just about that moment of epiphany and then, following about that moment of epiphany and then following, you actually have to also say yes because you can say no. You know you can keep climbing the wrong mountain at your own peril. But yeah, I had to come down a mountain, which was a little bit annoying. But then I met my mentor, miriam, and at the time it's actually phenomenal now that I look back on it and I was like, wow, I could not have written the story any better, and that's how that often goes.
Nele Vandersmissen:I think she at the time was the director of the Ojai Foundation in California. California, which is, I think, still is an institute where they hold rites of passage programs and teach circle facilitation. They call it council, that's their tradition of circle and so she was a director of that place and she is Australian. So she came home to visit her family and my friend was like, oh, you should meet, you'll get along like a house on fire. And we did. And then she was and I was like, how do I learn? She's like, oh, teach you kind of thing. And then she took me along some of the things that she had organized while she was here and I just sat with her and, yeah, I learned through her and we did a few retreats together and just learned through doing it. And then I started doing my own circles and my own retreats and then after that I got to, okay, I need kind of make sure I was ticking all the boxes. And that was that. It was really, yeah, kind of easy actually yeah, yeah.
Emma Ritchie:And so, from, I guess, going through that training, being mentored and again, you know, I've spoken to some people recently about this, about when you really line up with your purpose and you've just said it perfectly like the mentor, the teacher will appear, and in this case it sounds like that that's what happened. So, so, really for you. At the time you'd been at Telstra and then you started creating your own circles and going from there, and so really what, what happened for you from that stage? What happened next?
Nele Vandersmissen:I mean, a lot of years passed, it doesn't I want to say. Now it feels really simple because I'm like, oh well, everything kind of just rolled into the next thing. But at the time I probably didn't experience it that way. I think at that time I thought it was going quite slowly Because, of course, I had a taste of what it could be and I wanted to be that person. You know, I wanted to be leading sold out retreats for 33 women and and that's just a journey you know you're not going to do that tomorrow.
Nele Vandersmissen:You actually have to be able to hold space like that and build a name and blah, blah, blah. You actually have to be able to hold space like that and build a name and blah, blah, blah. So I think at the time I thought that was going relatively slowly, but looking back I think it just happened at divine timing and perfectly fine. And so I was getting my experience by doing women's circles. I was getting my experience by co-facilitating with Miriam. I was getting my experience by co-facilitating with Miriam and at one point I'd started an organization together with another friend of mine called we Can Be Shiros, because we felt very passionately I love that name still.
Emma Ritchie:It's so good. It's so good.
Nele Vandersmissen:I still walk around with that bag. I have a bag with a logo of we Can Be Shiros on it and people still stop me in the street, such a great name, well done.
Nele Vandersmissen:We started an organization and it was to connect women over in circle, to go on retreats and to actually hold space for women coming into their power, their truth, in similar, using similar tools and similar practices that we had learned at this retreat. I also met her at that retreat, so we did that and it was kind of it was amazing. The retreats we did were amazing, I loved it and it was just not a profitable business for us, you know, at that time. And so after I think two years, we were kind of like yeah, yeah, and we had different things we had going on.
Nele Vandersmissen:I still had a job and, um, at one point I got an email really randomly from someone in New York saying Hi, my name is Jill from Snap. We heard that you're trained in council, can we have a talk, can we have a chat? And I just was really busy at the time because I had my own company and I was still working and I was also doing grassroots activism work and I just was like delete. So I didn't read, I didn't know what Snap was, didn't make sense, so I didn't read the like, I deleted the email. And then, I think a month later, she emailed me again she said, hi, it's Jill from Snap. I'm not sure if you got my email, but Miriam Jones gave me your address.
Nele Vandersmissen:And then I was like, oh, and Miriam's my mentor. I was like, oh, this is someone Miriam knows, I better talk to her. And then I accepted a meeting with her and I had no idea what this meeting was going to be about. And I just went to this meeting and I was like hey, and then, probably 20 minutes into the meeting, I was like she works at Snapchat, what Like I don't understand. And I was like, oh, they call it Snap, like it was. I had not paid attention at all to what was going on. And then in the end, what they wanted was someone to come into the Sydney office and do one day a week of circle council with their team. And I was like so confused with that. You do circle with your team in a corporation. That's so weird, because my experience with circle up until that point had been everybody cries, you know.
Nele Vandersmissen:You do Circle with everyone, me included, and so I couldn't. That was just the only way that I had experienced it and how I used it, because I was doing transformational work with using Circle and I just thought that was its only application. So I was like, so do people cry? She said, no, we tell stories. I'm like about what, though? I'm so curious.
Nele Vandersmissen:So I remember coming off that call and being just curious, just thinking, wow, I am so curious about how they do that, because, of course, I was so passionate about Circle already, and the other thing was that I really wanted to make this my job, and I hadn't really been able to figure that out and I was manifesting, or I had this dream of like I just want to do this because I see how impactful it is. Every time we do a retreat, every time we do a gathering, women are changed by it. I just want to be able to do this work and get paid for it, and get paid for it well, and for it to be celebrated, not for it to be somewhere on the edge of society, you know, but like this should be daily life. And so that was the vision I had, or the dream I had. And then suddenly I get this call and I was like, wow, imagine, and I started working there. So I said yes, and it was an incredible.
Emma Ritchie:Snapchat. This is Snapchat. Yeah, so massive, massive global social media. Yeah, the whole thing.
Nele Vandersmissen:The whole thing, and so I started working there one day a week. It was an incredible salary. I got a day rate for the first, I think, year I was there and I started doing council circle with their teams, so everyone in that company has access to sit in circle together. And it was incredible. It just blew my mind and I had a huge budget to take people on amazing retreats. I had a huge budget to do art with them to, you know, make beautiful spaces so that when we sat in circle there was fresh flowers and all of this stuff. It was like my wildest dream come true yeah, incredible.
Emma Ritchie:and did you? I mean what? What did you find the main difference? Because obviously, everything that you've been doing to this point has been circles that you've organized, but now you're going into like a huge, you know corporation. What were the main differences or challenges that you faced like working with circles in a corporation?
Nele Vandersmissen:I mean, for me personally it was a huge change because I had to test my own beliefs around what makes a good circle, because for me a good circle was like someone has a breakdown or a breakthrough, and of course you don't really do that because people also have to work. So you can't really do deep shadow work with people and we would be together and, you know, have one hour where we create spaces of connection, and so for me it took a lot of inner work to not need that outcome in order to feel like I'd done a good job. You know, just because they're in an office, so people would come into my space and we would sit there for an hour and then I could never go over time. So that was another thing. For me, circle is sacred and so you don't mess with sacred time. So if at a retreat I don't, I don't interrupt a story. You know someone's telling a story, I would never say sorry, you know we have to go to accounting. I would just let them tell the story, and sometimes it goes an hour over because you're just in that moment.
Nele Vandersmissen:But in a corporation you get an hour and they have to be.
Nele Vandersmissen:You know, actually you get 55 minutes, because people need their five minutes to get back to their next meeting or whatever they're doing.
Nele Vandersmissen:So there was a really, really disciplined way of facilitating that was trickier for me. I had to learn to be like right, I have to be so tight on my facilitation that this circle is going to be exactly 55 minutes, and so I learned a lot from that. And also to honor the level of depth that people are at is not it's not my decision or like it's not my judgment. You know it's not up to me to judge what is good depth or not. Everybody is at a different level of connection and depth and it's perfect just the way it is. So I would say that the main challenge for me was all of my inner beliefs that I built around it, that I'd built around it, and having to look at how can I actually be a more humble facilitator and more open and more curious, instead of putting my entire belief system on this group of people that are a completely different demographic than what I am used to.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, how incredible is the learning you know, just to take what you've learned from one space and take it into another and to have to, you know, I guess have to adapt yourself, you know, and, like you said, adapt your own belief and your own value. System around what is a breakthrough, you know. When you're facilitating something, yeah, system around what is a breakthrough, you know. Um, when you're facilitating something, yeah, what would? What would you say is your? You may have already mentioned it, but what would you say was your biggest learning from working in that environment, working at snapchat and um many things I mean professionally.
Nele Vandersmissen:For me it was learning how to work with teams from all different cultures and countries and just to learn that this tool works for everyone. So I had teams in China, in Ukraine, in Saudi Arabia, in Dubai that I supported with Circle and it required some, you know, cultural competence and learning for sure, but in essence the tool remains the same and it works for everyone. And so maybe that wasn't a learning as such, but kind of by doing it over and over again, I got to gather the evidence and the confidence in that, so that now I feel very sure of that fact and I can talk to that without hesitation and be like oh, this works everywhere, you know. And the other thing I learned is when you get people in that space of empathy for each other, your whole culture changes. So you don't have that profanity so much. I mean you still have it. People still have to go to meetings and do KPIs and stuff, but if you can, in your organization, have moments of ritual and of sacred time, it just changes everything.
Nele Vandersmissen:Like people loved working there, they loved working there. It was the funniest thing ever, but we had these hoodies. They would send us hoodies and all this merch right. It was a thing and when I first joined the company I thought are you joking? What is with all this merchandise Like? I remember joining and they sent me a box. It was like a welcome to the company. Here's a whole new outfit for you.
Emma Ritchie:Please wear this to work on Monday. This is your uniform.
Nele Vandersmissen:I was like you'll find that no one wears this. You know, can you imagine? Like I was just thinking any other company I worked for before, like no way would I've worn any of that merchandise. Like no way. That was just not a thing. But anyway, anyway, I went to work.
Nele Vandersmissen:Everyone in that company routinely would just wear all their merchandise from the company and it was like it was a serious thing, because every year you would get a new jumper and a new t-shirt and so and it was a thing in the company someone from the company would get to design it. It was a competition. So, you know, you had like five jumpers or four jumpers and then people were like, oh, is that your 2018? You know, that's the whole thing, um, but I think that just shows that people were really proud to work there and to be part of that culture and they definitely invested a lot of money in it and it felt, felt really homely and people still because I left almost three years ago now and I still talk to those people, we still meet for drinks, we still chat, and it's that kind of moment in time that you will never forget.
Nele Vandersmissen:And I don't feel the same way about all the jobs I had before. So it's different. So there's that thing. I truly believe now that if you can create sacred time in any community or culture and anyone would know, that's why ritual exists. Like, if you look in Bali, those people are so in community, so together, because they have all this ritual experience together and that's their sacred time. But to create that in an innovative, modern way for an organization or a community is life changing and that's what brings people together, keeps them together, makes them look back on that time and go that was different, wasn't it? Yeah, it was really different, why? Well, that's why.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, incredible, incredible. Can we talk about wonder? I know we've been talking about wonder, the experience of you know taking in things but I want to talk about the wonder that you've created, which has a slightly different spelling w-o-n-d-r instead of d-e-r. So tell me about wonder, your wonder so my wonder is a company.
Nele Vandersmissen:It started in 2002. So what we do as a company, or what I do, is bring more sacred time to people. In a way that's the easiest way to say it it's to create those doorways of possibility, whether that's for an individual or for an organization. So what that looks like is for individuals I run online programs, I have an online community and I do retreats and for companies. Similarly, for companies and for companies, I specifically work with companies around off-sites and retreats where we take people and we create that moment in time that's memorable for them, where they have the transformation. So, at the core, everything I do has transformation in it and everything has that doorway to wonder or possibility. So it's all about creating more sacred time in your day to day and how that, when you do that, that's where the possibility lies.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, I mean that's beautiful and I think, like where we are in the world right now. We talked about the busyness at the start. We talked about, you know, people being more on their laptops, on their devices, you know, more in that work hustle mode, I just think there is going to be so much more of a demand for the kind of work that you're doing, because people are going to be looking for ways to not disconnect but actually connect to themselves. Yeah, and I think it's really beautiful now because you've, you know, because you've had this experience of full facilitation of Circle, but then also this corporate you know experience that you had with Snapchat, with one of you know, by the sounds of it, one of the most invested companies in people. I mean, what a gift that you've got both sides of that coin to bring to your own company now, yeah, I really love that.
Nele Vandersmissen:Yeah, and it's I really think it's nice that you see that, because I feel the same way about it. There's something really special or particular about being able to have my feet in both worlds and to feel comfortable is very part of my identity, because actually a lot of the work I do is spiritual in nature but it's so grounded. So for me spirituality is present all the time, even when you're in a corporation. It's not something that requires a million tools and the and you know the typical. It doesn't have to look a certain way. It can be, can be something different for everyone, but I feel like I'm able to bring some of those tools into corporations without making them, without making that threshold too high. So it's almost like I always say I'm a double agent. It's like I come in and people don't know that and they have a type of sacred experience, even though there's no chanting or there's no smoke. You know, like there's none of those things. It's just through connecting with other people and through using some of the frameworks that I know to work in in group facilitation, and it has a spiritual element. It's just not in the way that we're used to and I think actually that's one of my strengths and I'm so grateful for that.
Nele Vandersmissen:And what's important, I think, to note about it is that sometimes we're in a situation in life I think to note about it is that sometimes we're in a situation in life I think, that we don't choose.
Nele Vandersmissen:So like I didn't choose to stay at a recruitment company for five years where I was actually deeply unhappy.
Nele Vandersmissen:But if I hadn't done that, or if I didn't have the need to work in a corporation to get my visa for Australia, I would have not done that and I would have not had the skillset or the understanding that I do have now. So everything works out perfectly that way, and and knowing that now makes me think of things differently. So now, if ever, if ever something doesn't go quite my way, or then I'm like okay, instead of being like doesn't go quite my way. Or then I'm like okay instead of being like, why is this happening? Or I'll just be like, okay, because of this, I'm going to understand something I do not yet understand because of this. So I'm just going to be grateful for it in a way, and not sit here and moan about it, but I'm just going to accept it and dance with it and figure it out, and one day I will understand why this thing came onto my path, and it's a whole different way of being with that obstacle than if I was to be just miserable about it.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's like I know we've talked about this before it's that kind of that macro vision of life that you know, that bird's eye perspective, where it's like you don't yet know why things happen the way they're happening, and you know that can be that sad things or challenging things can happen, but it's like it will be revealed and that's where that trust comes in, doesn't it? It's just like you said, you were in this recruitment company for five years. You didn't want to be there, but because you know you wanted to get your permanent residency. It's like that's a choice that you made and that led you into like, partying a lot, you know, at the time, because you were like working too much and you were burning, you know, burning out and that led you to Montana and that led you to have that breakthrough. And then that led you to get introduced to Miriam, your mentor.
Emma Ritchie:And then, you know, snapchat came, and then here you are and you've created this incredible company called wonder, which is the thing that you have had since you were a child. Um, it's such a perfect name for your company. It's like, of course, you are going to have a company called Wando, isn't it incredible? And yet that's just where you are right now on this timeline, and you know, who knows what's to come. But I do want to kind of ask a question which is like I guess, who do you think on your journey of life you didn't have to be, but for you to be the person that you are now and to offer this out into the world, who do you feel you had to become? Who did you have to be?
Nele Vandersmissen:Well, the most cliche thing to say, which is the truth, is I had to become myself and um, and that means I had to unbecome all the things I was not, yeah, and, and that took a while.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah.
Nele Vandersmissen:It was a a time of really going. Do I even like this? Even do I like this person that I'm hanging out with? Is this the right person for me? Is this the right place for me? And I'm now in a place in my life where I make very intentional choices about everything and how I spend my time and where, and even which companies I work with, etc. And that wasn't always the case. So I had to really unbecome the person. That was non-intentional.
Nele Vandersmissen:I think there's definitely a young woman or a young girl in me that was just thrilled to be invited anywhere you know and just would say yes to everything and had no boundaries because I was, you know, raised in a really safe family system.
Nele Vandersmissen:So for me, I didn't have to build this system of watch out, which I didn't have. So that's the shadow, I guess, of having lots of safety is I had so much safety and trust in the world that I don't have this radar for danger at all. I'm always like everything will be fine and so far that's gone quite well. You know par a few times, but I do think that as a young woman moving in the world, I've lived in different countries and I had to learn to become myself outside of that family system. That was so safe and so prescriptive and no one had given me a handbook for that. No one was like oh, this is how you become yourself, or even that's actually what you should be doing. You know, my handbook was like act normal, walk in line, make sure you make enough money to pay your bills and, just like, don't ever make a ruckus.
Emma Ritchie:You know, turns out, but it's so true, it's so true, it's so true, it's so true. So for, like, anyone who is listening to this and is kind of like, okay, you're talking about becoming yourself, right, but you and I, we're just sat here and we are, we are ourselves, you know, as, as we see it, but you know, understanding, like you, obviously, that the start of that and it may have started before, but for you it sounds like a big part of that undoing and dissolving and removing the parts of you happened in montana. For anyone else out there who's listening and is kind of like, well, I'm just me, I don't know how to be another way, right, but it's, it's all about our inherited, you know, belief systems, it's like be the be the good girl, the good boy.
Emma Ritchie:You know, the pleaser, the perfectionist. Like we don't even, we're not even aware of it sometimes that we are just essentially acting out the belief systems of our family. And and and so how would what would be your advice to somebody who's kind of sat there going, yeah, like I feel like there's something more, I feel like there's some more joy or more wonder that I can experience in life, like what would you say to them to start to chip away at themselves?
Nele Vandersmissen:The first thing I would say is stop doing everything that you don't enjoy, like anything that you're doing because you think you should do it. Stop it, don't do that, no more. And I know that a lot of people. So I'm going to explain that. I know that a lot of people are like, yes, but you need to have discipline in life and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I am disciplined about some things, but I'm very disciplined most disciplined about my joy and my pleasure, and that's actually what is my strongest foundation. So I have a hard no for things that are like not fun for me. So even I'm someone who is healthy. I eat healthy, but I like healthy food, so I make time to cook delicious food that is healthy.
Nele Vandersmissen:You know I hardly drink because alcohol just doesn't serve me. Occasionally I love going to a party and drinking, but it happens once every three months or so. So for me it's like what do I enjoy? Like I love going for walks. I will never, ever you will like won't catch me dead at some sort of workout where you have to lift weights and someone yells at you and all of that stuff. It's like hell. No, not in this lifetime is that going to happen to me. I just don't enjoy that. So, and I think I did all those things when I was younger because I was like, well, I have to look a certain way, I have to do this, and that's how you kind of get off track in my experience. So now I spend a lot of time dancing because I love dancing. I go for long walks in nature because that's my joy. So stop doing everything that you think you should be doing or people are telling you you should be doing, but you actually don't enjoy. People are telling you you should be doing but you actually don't enjoy. And of course, sometimes you have to negotiate with other people around that. But I feel like that already would take some stuff off your plate and then start by being inquisitive about what are the things that really light me up, what are the things that actually, when I was younger, would keep me up until the middle of the night, what were the things I was curious about when I was a child.
Nele Vandersmissen:I call that wonder tracking. I do a practice with people when they first join the Wonder Lab. It's the first thing they get. It's this meditation of half an hour where you track your wonders and it basically takes you back to all the moments in your life where you had your breath taken away, because it's different for everyone. Takes you back to all the moments in your life where you had your breath taken away. You know, because it's it's different for everyone. People have their. People are wonder, prone for different things, but it's information about who you are Right. So for me, it's often like I can be at a waterfall and be like are you?
Nele Vandersmissen:kidding me.
Emma Ritchie:It will never get old.
Nele Vandersmissen:And it just takes my breath away and I love it. Or, you know, sleeping under the star is divine, but other people don't want to do that, you know. Other people are like put me in a football stadium with 20,000 people that are yelling and that's like my happiest moment, Great. Do more of that, you know. But don't go to have high tea if that's not your jam. Don't go to have high tea if that's not your jam, like it's not my jam. That's a good point, but I don't like that kind of stuff. So now, when people invite me unless it's my best friend, who you know I'm just like I'm sorry, but I'm not going to come to that. I don't enjoy it.
Emma Ritchie:So it's really the biggest advice is stop doing what you don't enjoy and stop doing more of what you do enjoy and train your attention muscle. Yeah, that's such beautiful advice and I think it's, you know, just coming back to it's just like that's when your shine comes through right, that's when you're lit up, when you're doing the things that you love and that make you, as an individual, happy. That's when you know you talk to people and that's when that passion comes through right, because you're living the life that you're creating, rather than doing things for other people or being, you know, the people pleaser, which you know self-confessed that was me and just following whatever anyone wants you to do. You know poor boundaries, where it's like, yeah, when you're making that choice for yourself I love doing this and I'm going to make a point of doing this for myself that's when that energy and that natural flow starts to come through.
Nele Vandersmissen:So, yeah, such and there's really something. I think when you see a person that is in that flow, you can right there's something magnetic about them and I can tell. I used to be envious of those people and I see that sometimes now, when I facilitate a big group of people, I can feel that projection sometimes from people because I'm there doing what I love and I'm getting paid for it and it's epic and it's a lot for people sometimes. So I can feel that projection of I call that sacred envy, because you actually want that shine and you want that thing that that person has. And I'm, and I think when you have sacred envy it's such a great doorway because then you can become curious about what is the thing for you that's going to get you to that place.
Emma Ritchie:Yeah, so beautiful. I love that. I haven't heard of that before. That's a good one, neela.
Nele Vandersmissen:Sacred envy.
Emma Ritchie:I love it, I love it. And where can people find your work? What's the easiest way for people to find out what you do and find your website? And?
Nele Vandersmissen:sure, the website is w-o-n-d-r. Dot global. And then I am mostly active on Instagram, which is the same at wonderglobal, and I post a little bit on LinkedIn, um, but not not every day that's coming, maybe, and and what's what's in store for you?
Emma Ritchie:like with wonder, like where you know what, what's your plans with this incredible company of yours?
Nele Vandersmissen:well at the moment. Um, I'm running, so I run facilitator trainings for people who want to learn what I do, and that is growing rapidly. So there's a lot of interest for that. So I am considering broadening that and having more trainings available, but also deepening the levels of training that we have. So right now you can learn how to be a circle facilitator the levels of training that we have. So right now you can learn how to be a circle facilitator. And at some point I also would love to teach people how to design and facilitate transformational experiences for groups. So, for example, how do you do this in a corporation? How do you bring sacred time into corporations and run a training on that?
Nele Vandersmissen:So I think at the moment the training part of the organization is doing really well and growing really rapidly. So I feel like the energy is there and I am turning towards that. So that's probably where my attention is going to go in the coming months. And also the retreats are going really well. So there's going to be more retreats. I have one signature one called Wild Wonder, which is like dipping your entire body into wonder for a weekend. It's delightful and people come away from that so enchanted. That's a women's retreat and those are really popular, and I'm going to run my first women's rite of passage this year, which is going to be basically what I did in Montana. So the circle comes around in October this year fantastic.
Emma Ritchie:Oh, I'm, I'm so excited for you and I'm so excited to you know, just witness, witness you over the years and and just see what you're creating, and you know, you are definitely an inspiration to so many people, myself included. I very much like look to you and I'm like, oh yeah, she's doing what she's meant to be doing, so you're very inspiring to me. There's no sacred envy.
Emma Ritchie:I'm not I am inspired. There's sacred inspiration. But, yeah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's honestly, it's been so lovely. Just obviously we've known each other for for quite some years, but it's just been so lovely for me just fill in the gaps of the things that I didn't know about you and, um, yeah, just to witness you in your full shine and, yeah, I'm just so proud of you and so excited for what's to come. Thank you so much.
Nele Vandersmissen:It's been such a privilege and such a pleasure, and now I feel all lit up.
Emma Ritchie:That's fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you, thanks, neela. Thanks for listening today, and if this episode helped or inspired you, just remember to share it to friends or family who could also use some inspiration. Today, we are all about sharing the love.
